Christmas season is past. It's still difficult to prime models when it's -2 outside, but progress is still being made. The painting table is slowly transitioning from Cygnar and Mercernary support to Trollbloods. I have a primed Axer and eMadrak on the table right now, and the finishing touches to a Lylyth3 and Raptor Solo for a friend.
Meanwhile, on the gaming side, games have been scarce, but there's been a few. The two main things I'm working on is figuring out out to play Trollbloods and develop the Kraye game a bit more. I posted some basic musing on him last month sometime, but I've sounded out and put to the test a few of those theories.
1. Arcing Pursuit. This seemed pretty neat at first. Run Kraye with a Lancer and land pursuit out there. This lets me move my favorite heavy up 4 or 5 inches, extending his threat range considerably and forcing my opponent to really wonder how much he wants to move. This didn't work for a couple of reasons.
A) Lancer is 6pts, and he can't arc in melee, so you move him up, and that's it. Next turn, he's going to die, be engaged, something, and you can't use him anymore to arc. So you're paying 6 army points to move your Stormclad 5'', assuming your opponent doesn't find away around it.
B) There's a decent shot your opponent will. Maybe 25%. Maybe he won't move that jack, and he'll move something else. Maybe it's Circle, and I'm an idiot, and the Stones will move him. Either way, my Lancer either dies without accomplishing much, and possibly, my Heavy doesn't actually get to move.
C) Me moving my Stormclad forward may work in his favor. Overall, at the end of the day, the Lancer is 6pts I'm gambling on when I really would rather have something I know is going to do work.
2. Hunters. I'm slooowwwwly less hostile towards hunters, but they still make me sad reeeaaally frequently. It's also required in Kraye's tier to bring 2 if you want anything good. That's 12pts of gambling. Quite frequently, I find that while the AP cuts the base ARM in half, the +2 or +3 ARM buff the jack has makes it really tough for POW6 to do anything. So sometimes, they do ok, but generally, I just dislike them. They've been working better for me, but usually, if I'm taking them in a Kraye list, I realize I'd rather have something useful, like Nyss or and Jonas vs. 2 hunters.
3. Infantry. And not Rangers. There's been three major candidates for Kraye's infantry. Nyss, Boomies and the Trencher Commandos (gasp). The Nyss so far seem to be winning. Boomies really are good, but I use them in my other list. So the Nyss see more use with Kraye. They do well, tarpit excellent, and don't really need help from Kraye, which is great because has nothing for them. The Commandos are just fun, but they want help from Finn and/or Rhupert, turning them into a 14pt module, 17 if you go all out. Nyss like having Rhupert, and Jonas, but they're not nearly as required. Either way though, running Nyss or Commandos has been working for me, screening rather well. My favorite game with the Commandos so far has to be my eStryker vs. Constance game. My opponent brought 2 units of Forgeguard, and my Commandos with Stryker and Runewood and anatomical precision killed probably 14 models on feat turn, and I only got maybe 7, 8 of them into combat. Anatomical precision cares not about your ARM34, dwarf.
4. Ironclad. I'm liking the Ironclad with Kraye, more than the Hunters, really. PS18, Tremor, SPD5. He plays up front, alphas in, kills something, and dies. Which is great, because it begins the piecetrade process, and starts with me on the high side. 13'' threat range w/o feat turn is great. I'd consider running 2, but I really need infantry.
So, right now, my list looks like this:
Kraye
*Squire
*Stormclad
*Avenger
*Ironclad
*Minuteman
B13
Nyss (max)
Rhupert
Eiryss
Blazers (min)
This generally doesn't mind a decent amount of infantry (Cryx hordes aren't any fun, mind you), but excels against lots of Warjacks, support heavy armies, and can deal with upkeep-heavy armies. Khador, possibly Retribution (MHSF hate Minutemen, yo), Menoth (Eleaping blazers eat Choir), Legion (Same problem), and sometimes Circle. It's also my drop against Mortenbra, possibly Scaverous, and a few Skorne lists. Maaaaaybe Trolls, but probably not. Lots of Medium-base infantry is a problem for this list, though weapon-master Nyss help. I'd expect this list to struggle against a High Reclaimer list though, when you're usually seeing multiple units of Bastions.
The other option I'm testing is to trade out the Avenger (gasp. Jedi, Kraye, and no Avenger?!) and drop in a second Minuteman and Jonas for the Nyss. This would let it handle more infantry, more support, and throw wrenches into a lot more plans. I still don't feel like it'd be comfortable to handle a camping Butcher2, but it's still got a lot of fast, accurate jacks and will be fairly difficult for a Warmachine list to go up against if they've got multiple warjacks.
The wrench in the plans is colossals, of course. An eHaley list will make it cry, though a Stormclad/Ironclad combo might possibly be able to handle one of them. If I tournament this list, I'll probably bring Ayaina and Holt instead of the B13, and leave them in my eCaine list. This will focus the list a bit more towards Higher Arm, but that might be what it needs anyways. PS21 Stormclad, anyone?
Incidentally, the Avenger is in my eCaine list... I can't help it. KD is such a great thing.
I'm very interested in Kraye, he's just so different from anything else Cygnar has to offer, and I enoy your discussions on him.
ReplyDeleteAs for using the Lancer, have you tried Thorn? He's a bigger gamble at 8pts, but the Reaction Drive lets you skip back a step, and may keep the arcnode around longer.
I thought about it briefly, and I suppose I could vassal it and see what I think, I just hate to do it at the cost of a solo. Might be worth it though, but I haven't decided yet. I'm glad you enjoy the theorymachine. I think Kraye is a bit more of a darkhorse caster, but I struggle to play him as anything but straight assassination.
DeleteCopying your list a little . I tried the lancer and it failed . I'm sold on the nyss hunters as we'll.
ReplyDeleteLet me know how it goes. I think when I come back to Cygnar, and I will, and it'll be because I miss Kraye, I may try Thorn. I don't know though. I'm curious to see what my Cygnar playstyle will be like after a year of Trolls.
DeleteMy struggles with kraye ... So far 3 weeks of mess ups . I think I own the wrong models for a good list . Seem to alwys get myself in a bind and then I have to run kraye and hope for luck the next turn
ReplyDeleteMy model count is limited
Kraye
Squire
Ironclad
Stormclade
Charger
Lancer
Hunter
B13
Rangers
Nyss + Murdock
Jw
Any suggestions??
How many points? I'm going to assume 35 at the moment, but I think 50 could be done... Off the top of my head,
DeleteKraye
*Squire
*Ironclad
*Stormclad
Nyss
B13
That leaves 8 pts for a 35pt game. I don't think Jonas is worth bringing unless you really expect to face a lot of AOEs, because that's really all he does for this list. However, he's about the only 2pt solo you have, and I think out of the points left, the Hunter is the best bet. So let the Hunter run wide, Nyss will tarpit, the B13 can scalpel enemy solos while the Ironclad and Stormclad push upfield. I would highly recommend getting a Minuteman though.
I'll try this list this weekend. I plan to get a minuteman next week . Thanks!!!
ReplyDelete